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The Office of History, Headquarters, U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, and the U.S. Army Center of Military History jointly published this book,Building for Peace: U.S. Army Engineers in Europe, 1945-1991 written by Robert P. Grathwol and Donita Moorhus. The rockets, armed with nuclear warheads, became a political issue. For recreation there were basketball, volleyball, tennis and multipurpose courts, football fields, miniature golf courses, a driving range, an archery range and a skeet-shooting range. There were Viet Cong all over the place, but if you were street-smart you stayed safe, Lomperis said. Those aircraft were used for military airlift, medical transport, and cargo transport operations in the United States and internationally. That was where I met my wife. 7th Army in particular suffered heavily, especially with loses of combat arms NCOs Then By He was friendly with street urchins who would badger him for chocolate and other small treats. Morale was bad, and there were racial problems, Shkurti said. As the threat of imminent invasion receded in the late 1950s, U.S. Army Engineers continued to build and maintain facilities that supported American and NATO combat power and housed and supported U.S. forces and their families, now permanently stationed in West Germany. The enemy was the Soviet Union and the other signatories of the Warsaw Pact, including the German Democratic Republic, or East Germany. East of Underground was one such band a multiracial, seven-piece group stationed in Germany at the tail end of the Vietnam War. If you are in crisis or having thoughts of suicide, To prop up sinking morale and keep soldiers safe on base rather than heading into Vietnamese towns, the U.S. military strove to make bases as home-like as possible, Appy said. Sign up for a new account in our community. You pull together under a common enemy, Shkurti said. However, their wartime ally, the Soviet Union, soon became an enemy. In November Thornton journeyed to Da-Nang, Vietnam, with his wife as a keynote presenter at the Asia Pacific Mediation Forum. No matter where veterans served in Vietnam, they were a close witness to danger. The cover of East of Underground's self-titled LP. To preserve morale, the ration program ensured that all personnel were able to buy highend goods, but it was limited due to the possibility they might resell goods on the black market, Lair said. When they got home they were all the same (veterans), but they did not all have an equal experience. Their lot was really rugged, Lomperis said. Peace activists, however, saw them as a threat and held massive demonstrations. People dont understand how consequential the decisions were that were being made at headquarters, he said. I assisted a medical officer suture up a Marine after a bar fight who was so drunk he didnt need an anesthetic. I was able to get into a band there. He could take that information back to the base. After the defeat of Germany, the relatively small American force in Europe was preoccupied with the administration and reconstruction of their former foe. They were so talented, I just assumed they would have a contract with the first studio they walked into.". The stress of military life was constant. This was because they had relatives (brothers) already serving in Vietnam. stationed in Germany In the late 65 through 1966, the Army Divisions outside of Vietnam, specifically CONUS and West Germany were hemorrhaging personnel for service in South Vietnam, these being primarily if not exclusively volunteers, these numbers had to be made good. He says it was completely random, some bodies had to go to 7th Army and his lucky number came up. Some 20 years later, US President George W. Bush went to war with Iraq over its alleged program to develop weapons of mass destruction. Involved in the Vietnam War I ask this because many guys of draft age enlisted, enlisted specifically for three years to chose their MOS, and in a great many cases avoid serving in South Vietnam. was told," you are going to Germany, get your wives in german class". To make it even more complicated, just what is a combat veteran? The King of Rock 'n' Roll, as Elvis Presley would eventually become known, was drafted in as a soldier and began his military service in Germany in 1958. They gave up their lives back home. Drug abuse, overdoses, crime and traffic accidents led to several deaths within his unit. Along with its allies, the US had liberated Germany from the Nazis. 9) Luxembourg After graduating AIT at Fort Knox I was sent to their NCO Armor School. Soldiers bought goods with their ration cards, which were punched when purchases were made, Lair said. He never carried a gun because if he was shot, the enemy soldier could have claimed it was self-defense, he said. This lasted for 5 months, then we were told, Okanawa. The chow halls tried to replicate moms home cooking with menus of grilled hamburgers, roast beef with gravy, French-fried potatoes, mashed potatoes, buttered corn and asparagus, ice cream, vanilla pudding and cherry pie, Lair said. David Hollander produced the compilation. More military personnel played support roles than combat ones. Why is Netflix pouring billions into South Korean shows? This is the official public website of the Headquarters U.S. Army Corps of Engineers. Thanks, your message has been sent successfully. Being a noncombatant doesnt mean they didnt feel scared, that there wasnt a looming sense of danger even onthe biggest bases that were considered safer areas, Lair said. Everyone else went directly to Vietnam, or a few were sent to Ft. Benning to attend the NCO School or Airborne Training. Country western music blared all over Saigon, Lomperis said. "I'm just amazed that [the band's] three singers didn't have hit records after they left the Army. I expected it would be worse in Vietnam, but it was a more satisfying experience, Shkurti said. ". Reservists who were assigned to flight, ground, or medical crew duties at the following locations between 1969 and 1986, and who developed an Agent Orange related disability. Long Binh was not a standard base, but it was home to the Armys Vietnam headquarters and showed the abundance and consumerism that was possible to create. "I was shocked when I found that out myself, but it kind of makes sense," Hollander tells Guy Raz, host of weekends on All Things Considered. Error, please try again. As opposed to the goldbug society, or service personnel who were not interested in meeting locals and learning about Vietnam, Lomperis sought out opportunities to get off the base and interact with the Vietnamese. It's easy! The Ramstein base is especially significant, since it is also headquarters of the United States Air Forces in Europe. A rare photo of East of Underground in performance. Thornton returned to school later in life and is now finishing his doctorate in business administration in the field of cross-cultural competency and conflict management. There were swimming pools, bars, cheap booze, entertainment, dancers and strippers, American TV. Germany will remain strategically important for the US. Six out of seven served on bases. To enter and activate the submenu links, hit the down arrow. I was going for many reasons, but the most important was to close a chapter of history I felt needed closing, Thornton said. Even today, many see otherwise, but only at home., One place the guys in the rear and combat soldiers would cross paths was at rearward bases, which ranged from isolated fire bases less than a city block in size to major bases like Long Binh Post that resembled an American city, said Chris Appy, author of three books about the American war in Vietnam: American Reckoning: The Vietnam War and Our National Identity, Patriots: The Vietnam War Remembered from All Sides and Working- Class War: American Combat Soldiers and Vietnam.. Men facing shipping out exhibited many types of behavior. Their story got eliminated. Hit enter to expand a main menu option (Health, Benefits, etc). He now is an adjunct professor in the John Glenn College of Public Service. I can only speak from my own experiences. They were selected during something called "The U.S. Army's Original Magnificent Special Services Entertainment Showband Contest" let's just call it a battle of the bands. Attention A T users. In response to this fear, the United States deployed large forces to West Germany. If I am sad about anything Vietnam-war, it is how other global players view that period of history when compared to the American perspective. After graduating from Ohio State University in 1968, William Shkurti said, I knew I was going to be drafted so I enlisted. There were more prostitutes than bureaucrats, and every kind of club and bar from high-class to low-class. The tensions between the two sides were demonstrated when US Army and Soviet Union tanks faced off in a divided Berlin. We had an Infantry MOS Soldiers on one of our Sheridan Tanks. German Chancellor Gerhard Schrder, knowing the majority of voters supported him, ruled out Germany's involvement. At the end of the spraying campaign in 1971, the remaining C-123 planes were reassigned to reserve units in the U.S. for routine cargo and medical evacuation missions spanning the next 10 years. They left their families to fight in a war that wasnt popular. File a claim online. The US Army employed 17,000 American civilians in Germany in 2019. Vietnam These facilities supported the large American and NATO forces stationed for almost fifty years on the front lines of the conflict between East and West, ready to confront a Soviet invasion. He remembers his commanding officer Abrams as a political genius who turned the war around.. Especially from the minority groups, our black comrades, because they bore the brunt of the draft, were very unappreciated, and made the ultimate sacrifice above and beyond other groups, and for what? Thornton said. Many celebrities joined in the protests. He is seen here waving to his fans at Bremerhaven train station. WebThe conventional wisdom was that everybody carried a rifle, patrolled the jungle and faced death daily, but thats false, said William Shkurti, who served as an artillery officer in a remote area about 300 yards from the Cambodian border in fall 1970. oakleaf777, Arriving in West Germany, was a shocking experience for the new Army recruit. On leave, Thornton would head home to see family and friends, but the war changed things. Its easy to forget how large a US military presence in West Germany and Korea was maintained during the late 60s and early 70s aside from the forces fighting in Vietnam. Right, I got you, very interested to know that fine point. I say 16 months because his orders were involuntarily extended because he was in the ROK when the USS Pueblo was taken. At the height of the Vietnam War, Ali refused induction into the United States Army, citing his religious beliefs and opposition to the conflict. Outdoor Recreation Center. The high rate may have been attributed to our being an Infantry MOS, but the only way you didn't go to Vietnam was because of the above reasons. Eventually Shkurti was sent to Vietnam and served as an artillery officer with B Battery 2 / 35th Artillery at Fire Support Base Lanyard on the Cambodian border in 1970-71. Buddy C. Thornton learned from his military service was Always live for the day. I was in Boston when the Chelsea fire occurred in October 1973, received a meritorious unit citation for fighting the fire that consumed a large portion of Chelsea 18 blocks one way, 16 blocks another. Historical Vignettes So many servicemen came home and saw how the story (of the Vietnam War) was being told. As the Soviet system, like the Berlin Wall, collapsed in the late 1980s and early 1990s, it appeared that American and allied forces in Europe had accomplished their mission without war. After that, the search was on for as many of these Army bands as they could find. The big problem was that Saigon was Sodom and Gomorrah. The history of US troops in Germany Regardless of how we each served, part of our soul was left in that place with those who never came back alive, and with those who suffered and died after, and we should be honored for our collective loss if for no other reason. "Bear in mind that these bands were all engaged in a show band contest in 1971 and 1972, and the winners of the that contest would then be able to tour Europe, and would also record an LP in the Armed Forces Network studios in Frankfurt. Huge streams of paperwork came through military intelligence offices that allowed Lomperis a birds eye view of the war and how it functioned. Please switch auto forms mode to off. The experience that most people likely associate with Vietnam is the horror and deprivation of war, so its ironic that that wasnt the real experience of most Vietnam veterans, Lair said. Ammunition storage facility, Heilbronn, West Germany (left); Along with its allies, the US had liberated Germany from the Nazis. Active duty personnel who served in a regular USAF unit location where a contaminated C-123 was assigned who had regular contact with the aircraft through flight, ground, or medical duties between 1969 and 1986, and who developed an Agent Orange related disability. HMD found that Reservists who served as flight crew (pilot, navigator, flight engineer, and loadmaster), ground maintenance crew, and aero-medical personnel had regular contact with the aircraft, and would have experienced some exposure to chemicals from herbicide residue. The US soldiers also brought American culture to Germany. Napoleon said, An army marches on its stomach, and the U.S. military followed his advice. The sky swarmed with helicopters. Don't forget Panama and Alaska, Alaska itself in that time period had two Infantry Brigades separate stationed there. Combat veterans offered a truly unique and special contribution to the war, but that doesnt mean it wasnt a sacrifice for people who served as support, Lair said. While having a positive attitude about any PCS is important, its equally important to have realistic expectations. He was awarded the U.S. The war changed and dealt cruelty to many families, not just mine, but I have seen the sadness in my fathers eyes, and we both know what is there, and what is missing.. Most of his time was spent protecting government buildings from Vietnam War protesters. They worked in intelligence. Good food makes people feel at home, Lair said. 7) Cologne, Germany. The Federal Republic of Germany became an important strategic location during the Cold War. "So this was a very viable way to avoid active duty in Southeast Asia.". One colonel joked, If we ever really got attacked, the V.C. Once we got our orders, the guy Just below me went to Germany. If you call it wrong, thousands of people could end up being killed, he said. Veterans (including some Reservists) who state that they flew on or worked on a C-123 aircraft between 1969 and 1986 are eligible for the Agent Orange Registry. Vietnam has come to symbolize certain things that arent necessarily true. I thought, hot dog, going to go relic hunting. The guys with the beer with hot food and hot showers, Appy said. WebIn An Army in Crisis Alexander Vazansky analyzes the social crisis that developed among the U.S. Army forces stationed in Germany between 1968 and 1975. Some people feel the term Vietnam veteran should refer only to those who served in Vietnam, but the U.S. government defines them all as Vietnam-era veterans according to the Vietnam Era Veterans Readjustment Assistance Act of 1974 any veteran who served on active duty during the official time frame of the Vietnam War (1961-1975). Is it if you might be in danger of a mortar attack versus projecting violence and delivering it to the enemy? Many veterans struggled with feeling that their experience didnt measure up. The entire emphasis is on the narrow combat experience, Lair said. When we got home, everybody was the same, said Lomperis, a Saigon warrior who served in a support capacity at MACV (U.S. Military Assistance Command, Vietnam), also known as mafia HQ or Pentagon East.. Veterans must show on a factual basis that they were exposed in order to receive disability compensation for diseases related to Agent Orange exposure. Office of Accountability & Whistleblower Protection, Training - Exposure - Experience (TEE) Tournament, Military Exposure Related Health Concerns, War Related Illness & Injury Study Center, Clinical Trainees (Academic Affiliations), Post-Vietnam Dioxin Exposure in Agent Orange-Contaminated C-123 Aircraft, local VA Environmental Health Coordinator, Find out if you qualify for VA health care, diseases related to Agent Orange exposure, Call TTY if you Out of our entire class I believe two, maybe three guys got orders for Korea. Youre in the hot seat. Its kind of like playing goalie for a soccer team. VA decides these claims on a case-by-case basis. One of the biggest lessons Dr. and child care facility in Bad Kreuznach, West Germany (right). Pew Research Center From the end of World War II until the end of the war in Southeast Asia, the Army component command in Germany, the U.S. Army, Europe (USAREUR), managed military construction in the theater with its own Engineer organizations. American expenditures on construction in Europe declined sharply. The U.S. military presence in Germany peaked at 274,119 in 1962, nearly eight times its level last year. The following individuals may qualify for benefits related to Agent Orange exposure: Veterans may file a claim for disability compensation for health problems they believe are related to exposure to Agent Orange residue on post-Vietnam C-123 airplanes. From sundries like razors and cigarettes, apple juice and chocolate milk to diamond jewelry and Rolex watches, stereos and kitchen appliances, servicepeople could buy just about anything even cars for their wives or girlfriends back home, said Lomperis. Health Care 2. His unit in Germany lacked the leadership and necessities to get their job done, he said. Upon graduating they lined us and announced that if your last name started with A through J your orders were Germany and K through Z your orders were Vietnam. Those recordings were lost for decades, until a collector discovered an East of Underground LP in 1997. This is not about being negative or complaining, but simply having a balanced outlook for your transition. would have to use the scheduled bus service to get around the base, Lair wrote in Armed with Abundance.. Life athome goes on without them, and it must have been difficult to navigate when they returned, she said. 3. In Germany the U.S. military was protecting West Germany against the threat of Russian invasion, but it wasnt imminent, Shkurti said. At the end of the spraying campaign in 1971, the remaining C-123 planes were reassigned to reserve units in the U.S. for routine cargo and medical evacuation missions spanning the next 10 years. When I left Korea, the first thing I did when I got to Germany was to find Special Services, which happened to be right next to my barracks," Hitt recalls. When we graduated we lined up in front of a building that you entered one at a time on one side and after getting your paper work you exited out the other side. During the Vietnam War, the U.S. Air Force used C-123 aircraft to spray Agent Orange to clear jungles that provided enemy cover in Vietnam. It was painful to even be around them. They deserve our respect. For website corrections, write to hqwebmaster@usace.army.mil. They also ate pretty well. 6) Berlin, Germany. "The song selection includes songs that were playing in the States, and very much expressed the countercultural sentiments of political resistance in this country at that time," Hollander says. They lived in an apprehensive state. Saigon was considered relatively safe, but life wasnt easy and violence erupted. Its important for people to know they exist. Youth activity centers in Germany included this facility in Wiesbaden. In response the Corps of Engineers drastically reduced the size of EUD and reconstituted it as the Europe District. HMD released its report, Post-Vietnam Dioxin Exposure in Agent Orange-Contaminated C-123 Aircraft, Jan. 9, 2015. 8) Bruges, Belgium. If you dig into it, it becomes a very grey war, he said. Only about one out of seven were combat troops, said historian Chris Appy, history professor at University of Massachusetts Amherst. Because he was one of the last there in that formation and those three went to the ROK. But as the confrontation between the Soviet Union, our former ally, intensified with the Berlin blockade and the outbreak of the Korean War, American leaders grew fearful that the next target of international communism was Western Europe, which contained our most important democratic allies and a rapidly rebuilding capitalist economy. "I initially was stationed in Korea. Then, there was the shopping. 2 weeks before we graduated they told us, " Class 17, RVN". You would think (serving in Germany) would be a great duty, but it wasnt.. The rule was to always go out in groups of two or three, but I often went by myself unarmed. Supercharge your procurement process, with industry leading expertise in sourcing of network backbone, colocation, and packet/optical network infrastructure. US MILITARIA FORUM - COLLECTORS PRESERVING HISTORY Their silence carried a message and concealed the fact that many veterans served in the rear echelon and not in combat capacity, Lair said. During the war, in-country combat and support troops could be identified on sight, said author Timothy Lomperis, who served two tours of duty in Vietnam in the Army and Defense Intelligence Agency. Being Stationed in Germany From the end of World War II in 1945 until the end of the Cold War in 1991, Army Engineers played a key role in providing the facilities for arming, supplying, training, and housing American soldiers and airmen and their families in Europe. You need to be a member in order to leave a comment. There werent enough NCOs (non-commissioned officers), not enough support or spare parts. WebThe United States Army has 40 military installations in Germany, two of which are scheduled to close. We wore different uniforms. In their spare time, servicepeople could go to the library, join a service club or take a spin on the go-kart track. After completing Field Artillery Officer Candidate School at Fort Sill, Oklahoma, Shkurti was sent to Germany not Vietnam. I had an uncle that was drafted out of Brooklyn, NY. They were clerk typists, cooks, drivers. During that time, I was assigned to the sick officers quarters, sadly watching many men pass away. I didnt carry a gun, Lomperis said. "I've done my own searches on Google and so forth, but I cannot find anything," Hitt says. The American military presence in Germany began at the end of World War II. After discharge in 1976, Thornton took his 4-year-old daughter and pregnant wife home to her family and used the GI Bill to earn an a degree in allied health sciences from University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee. I was in Infantry AIT at Ft. Polk Nov. 68-Jan 69. Most of all, Army bands will strive to honor General George Washington's observation, "Nothing is more agreeable and ornamental than good music. 800-829-4833, Veterans Crisis Line: We would take orders from Washington and from the five information streams (personnel, intelligence, operations, logistics and political implications) and use all that information to create an order of the day, Lomperis said. My middle brother died five years ago from extended PTSD and the ravages of the drug addiction he endured while trying to cope with his memories from Vietnam. The challenge was figuring out what the enemy would do. I personally met over the years quite a few guys in my neighborhood that enlisted in the Army, 3 years like you said, interesting thing was that not one served in South Vietnam, even up to two duty station changes, in example serving in CONUS then Panama, etc, I recall one guy I met in a bar who enlisted for 3 1967-70, an Ordnance guy, said he served his whole three years after Basic (Bliss) and AIT (Aberdeen) as wheeled vehicle mechanic at West Point, you know in the regular army component at the academy. In the early years, dances were held on the streets of Berlin in summer months and in winter, the US Army organized Christmas parties for local children. Based on the HMD report, VA has decided to acknowledge exposure to Agent Orange for personnel whose military service involved regular contact with the contaminated C-123 aircraft. 877-222-8387, TDD (Hearing Impaired) Ask me or any other serviceperson and they will tell you they are proud of their service, Shkurti said. The American military presence in Germany began at the end of World War II. For guys drafted during Vietnam, what really were the odds they would be sent to Vietnam as opposed to remaining stateside, or sent to Germany or Korea? Patches, In 1968 you could volunteer for the draft and serve 2 years active duty. I think I never knew, or know even today, of any Vietnam-era vets I would not embrace as brothers. The Vietnam War was a long, costly and divisive conflict that pitted the communist government of North Vietnam against South Vietnam and its principal ally, the United States. I was thinking I would have a better chance of determining where I would be sent.. Boy, I thought I had it made, Shkurti said with a small laugh. In-depth strategy and insight into critical interconnection ecosystems, datacenter connectivity, product optimization, fiber route development, and more. It was still no guarantee you wouldn't be sent to Vietnam and in some cases even be sent to do something else besides what you trained for. [Today in History] Muhammad Ali refused to be inducted into the He attributed it to where he happened to be standing in a formation. The liner notes of East of Underground: Hell Below conclude with a sort of benediction, lifted wholesale from the U.S. Army Field Manual: Because of the unique ability of music to communicate, bands will serve in different capacities of publicity and recruiting, and in the support of civil affairs. While older Germans were friendly, younger ones were hostile and aloof, Shkurti said. Despite separate residential districts, there has always been contact and exchange between German and American families. The band formed while its members were stationed in Germany during the Vietnam War. The book became the first volume in aCenter of Military History series, U.S. Army in the Cold War. After Boston, Thornton served at Marines Corps Base Camp Lejeune, North Carolina. The mood around the country was not good for the military, not like today with cheers and applause for returning members.

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