usfs helicopter rateswhen will pa vote on senate bill 350 2021

Each year, DNR works ahead of the fire season to improve its access to professional equipment and services for fire suppression. What you all have put out leaves these folks in harms way.you guys ok with that on your souls. They may also be federal agencies such as Indian Affairs or the Bureau of Land Management, who are responsible for natural areas that must be fought against forest fires. Aviation for Regions 3,4,6,8 <<0B6C55EEACE9564A8C1EB025C5E90DF9>]>> They claim that 2 times throughout the 1/9 year parent contract, they will allow onboarding of new vendors/equipment. Maybe in talking to a 3rd party lender the FS would learn more about these challenges that industry is facing due to the well intended, but poorly delivered solicitation requirements? Anyone else seeing a trend, that they like to spend money on the most expensive piece of equipment they can find, including fixed wings. ) or https:// means youve safely connected to the .gov website. Certainly valid concerns regarding the quantity of helicopters to transition and timeline. Bill wrote 3 sentences without even putting his opinion in, the overwhelming response is that the only people happy or satisfied with this RFP are the people who wrote it. Thank youfor taking the time to tell us how we're doing! Why is it presented as CWN when it looks like E.U? Avian Aviation Biologist. For point-to-point flights, AFF flight following may be used as well. Note:Tanker capacity standards may vary by agency. USFS R8-R5 Operating Plan. DOI Incident Position Qualification Guide (IPQG) AABI. So do we get balanced journalism here. 0000074247 00000 n Calfire is seeing right now how much NOT an upgrade they really are and how they are just too big for some things. Its contracts are often the most profitable, and also have the advantage of being valid for 5 seasons, which gives economic visibility to companies that manage to win this sesame. A 212 is a twin, performs better than a 412 is all aspects but is a little older and only has two blades. Several vendors opted for EU contracts with states instead of the USFS. However, the decision to adopt and utilize them is made independently by the individual member agencies and communicated through their respective directives systems. Todd more well informed insight here. Comments, questions, and recommendations shall be submitted to the appropriate agency representative assigned to the steward for each resource. Thanks and a tip of the hat go out to Bob. The Cal Fire owns a fleet of UH-1 Huey, rigged with Bambis or HBE Simplex Kits, depending on the geographic areas they must cover. GVWR = Gross Vehicle Weight Rating. Those who can manage might do fineor they might just get tossed out with the bathwater.. 9-Mar-2021 Source: Fire Aviation. Southern Area Regional Coordination Group Operating Plan. Office: (208) 387-5670 Mobile: (208) 616-5547 They are all tied to contractors in the business. Little to no way to sock away money for these required upgrades to bid on the contract. In addition the Logistics Branch provides procurement support for eleven National Cachesfor wildland fire suppression and prevention, as well as other emergency incident response activities. 0000005493 00000 n Sucks that theyre limiting their choices on the RFP. These publications are "specified by more than 47 state departments of transportation," and is "the only privately researched and published equipment rate guide approved by the Federal Highway Administration for use on federally-funded construction projects." Additional current information can be accessed on the Interagency Fire UAS Operations website. A Department of Defense liaison was added as a permanent partner at NIFC in 2008. These are basically short term Exclusive use contracts and I expect will be moved around at such per fire danger needs, and will be putting lots of hours on Hobbs meters. Companies like Columbia and Erickson are considered too big now. TheNWCG Standards for Wildland Fire Resource Typingis jointly developed and maintained bythe following National Wildfire Coordinating Group (NWCG) committees and their subgroups: While they may contain current or useful information, previous versions are obsolete. The banker looks at your household income and job stability. Smokejumper STC But you better pay for it, USFS says! Region 6 Cache Freight Services United States Department of Agriculture-Forest Service Guide . 545 0 obj <>/Filter/FlateDecode/ID[<699CE8B7B060C148BAB896A267C961CC>]/Index[527 27]/Info 526 0 R/Length 94/Prev 249949/Root 528 0 R/Size 554/Type/XRef/W[1 3 1]>>stream One vendor said new requirements could reduce the number of helicopters on contract. So this all begs a question how do we bridge the gap here? This change will be a double edged sword..as operators cannot meet requirements or afford changes they will shut their doors and then already limited resources will be permanently removed for fire. CO Support on all major contract programs (Mobile Food Services, Mobile Showers, Type 2 & 2-IA Crews, Retardant Chemicals), Contractor Performance Assessment Reporting System (CPARS) Alternate Focal Point Given the current climate of helicopter contracts there will be more people getting out of helicopters than getting into them. Helicopters have a tank of flammable product and a flare and are used to burn down wooded areas in prescribed burning and fire areas. Very well stated on what most of us are thinking and in the same boat. When the helicopter is in position, the crew releases the water to extinguish hot spots. Next Generation Multi-Engine Fixed-Wing Airtankers 3.0 For an operator to be competitive in the LPTA world, you need to amortize the cost of the a/c over 10 years or more. Office: (208) 387-5231 Mobile: (208) 991-7639, Larry Robillard,Contracting Officer Do you know anything that can replace a CH-54/S-64 or an S-61? Visualizer - Convert Coordinates, Airtankers, Helicopters, Long-term Retardant Contracts, FAA AMD-23E v2.0. Boise, Idaho 83705-5354 Nobody should bid, then when everything is on fire and the USFS comes begging then youd have some leverage on them. Office: (208) 387-5272 Mobile: (208) 616-5546 Other candidates would be the 412, and the other twin engine mediums on the market from AW and Airbus/Eurocopter. But only when they decide, of course! National Interagency Fire Center Designed by Elegant Themes | Powered by WordPress, Guide to customs clearance for a Helvetian aircraft, Bell unveils industrialists on the Invictus program. NFPA = National Fire Protection Association NEPTUNE AVIATION . Some helitack crews are trained to rappel from helicopters to fires in remote locations. to Air Missions (NOTAMS), Para Candidates include the Bell 429, Airbus/Eurocopter H135 or H145 or other light twins on the market. The U.S. Forest Service has awarded 90-day contracts for an 22 additional helicopters that can lift at least 3,300 or 7,000 pounds. Video of two Type 1 helicopters reloading with retardant, 41 Companies on $1B Forest Service Helicopter Support Contract, Updates on Nob Fire and WatchDuty is looking for help, North Carolina: Great Lakes Fire burning in footprint of 2012 fire. The Incident Command System (ICS) uses this system based on the equipment capability. A minimum of 100 gallons of extinguishing products, water or retardant, must be able to be conveyed by these machines. Category 3 includes helicopters capable of lifting more than 700 gallons of water or retardant. These helicopters can support firefighters on the ground by delivering up to 300 gallons of water to thefirelinein a bucket or tank. Click here. These helicopters can strategically drop thousands of gallons of water or retardant with pinpoint accuracy, while working closely with ground personnel and other firefighting aircraft. The Logistics Branch provides support for WO Fire & Aviation Operations customers (located at NIFC) with the procurement of (urgent/immediate)incidentresources, such as retardant chemicals and related services, mobile food services, mobile shower facilities, firefighting crews, Critical Incident Stress Management Services (CISM) and National Videographer/Photographer Services. The National Interagency Fire Center is committed to making its information and communication technologies accessible to individuals with disabilities by meeting or exceeding the requirements of Section 508 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973, as amended. Who will buy a 206, 407, etc besides AG guys? We can only hope the upcoming DOI on-call helicopter RFP due out later this year isnt so crazy. Forest Service Aviation Management. Furthermore the numbers they provide are usually . Helicopters also deliver firefighting crews called helitack crews to fires for initial attack. I can see daily availability rates sky rocketing, which it sounds like is expected. Buying a/c is a lot like buying a house. Enter your email address to subscribe and receive notifications of new posts by email. %%EOF Typos, let us know, and please keep in mind the commenting ground rules before you post a comment. *Manufacturers published rated net horsepower (HP). Large Jet Transport There is obviously some back door dealing going on with this RFP as it very specifically pushes money to certain equipment providers and tips the hat to certain helicopter companies. That means NO helitack, NO rappelers, ONLY flight crew and bucket work. 34 aircraft in this category operate in the US, mainly Bell 205 and 212. They essentially want a Sky Crane to do a Jet Rangers job. Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) Coordinator National Helicopters (Large Fire Support, Initial Attack, Call-When-Needed) endstream endobj 11 0 obj <> endobj 12 0 obj <> endobj 13 0 obj <> endobj 14 0 obj <>/ProcSet[/PDF/Text]/ExtGState<>>> endobj 15 0 obj <> endobj 16 0 obj <> endobj 17 0 obj <>stream Thats rarely happened before b/c a) its a lot of $$$ and b) the states also believed that they would get aerial resources when needed, but they got burned by that hope, literallyyou may think you can grab it, but think again in tough times.State will think about State first before sharing the resource.it will get more interesting when France, Spain, Greece and Turkey take these assetssleep well FSyou guys are managing the LATs and Type 1s welltheyll always be there for you.keep up the good workwell done. You have to love the obvious FS sycophants on here making contemptuous, defensive and specious arguments. Office: (208) 387-5835 Mobile: (208) 407-6002 Do you know anything that can replace the current platforms? No. Fish and Wildlife Service, National Park . The FS is certainly aware of Mr. Gabbert who has reached out to public affairs folks within the agency on numerous occasions. What happens when they implement it towards Type Is? Office: (208) 387-5682 Mobile: (208) 407-6003, Andrea Marks-Cash, Contract Specialist Exactly. These CWN have a number of day to end of termination clause. National Air Attack Exclusive Use Aircraft They are usually contracted for 5 years. Guess what those choppers wont have cockpit cameras or loudspeakers or TAS. Some of the contracts have a set number of guaranteed hours instead of a daily rate. Thats discouraging as it suggests that the customer really isnt listening and just providing the perception of doing so.your point of just not choosing to submit if an operator doesnt like it is incredibly insensitive and uninformed. I also assume that the CO just channeled the PM and HSs needs for the program. United States Department of the Interior (DOI) Office of Aviation Services (OAS) and the . Under contract this season there are 28 heavyweights, including Kaman KMax, CH-46, CH-47, S-70, CH-54 and S-61 from a dozen companies. The most spectacular heavy-duty helicopters have long been the Erickson AirCrane, the CH-54 refurbished by the Oregon-based company that has developed for them a constant-rate and controlled-release airdrop that is considered one of the most efficient and reliable. The FS doesnt seem to trust the input from the industry on this, so maybe the FS should ask the people who provide the mortgage? Fire fighting tools, food and water are dropped by parachute to the firefighters after they land near the firemaking them self-sufficient for the first 48 hours. Aerial SupervisionModule(Lead Planes) It has been lightly edited. The single vs twin vs safety argument doesnt have a clear winner unless youre talking about CAT A capable aircraft. They should change their contract terms should change if theyre forcing companies to buy X aircrafts. The Call When Needed contracts, which are also valid for 5 years, are intended to provide additional equipment when the situation requires it. %%EOF An official website of the United States government. ALSE Handbook/Guide Ver 2.8 November 25, 2017 2 . Robinson Helicopter Operating Cost Calculator Aircraft operating cost estimates. 3833 S. Development Avenue DO NOT listen to your bosses, DO THE RIGHT thing and pull this RFP back and get it rightMILLIONS of U.S. citizens are expecting that you will. The FS would gladly issue multi-year contracts (vs. base year + options). Why arent fixed wing on CWN awarded a offered daily minimum? Airtankers, Helicopters, Long-term Retardant Contracts. 2. For several years now, the AirCrane are clearly competing with the massive arrival of CH-47D obtained by some companies on top of the US forces. The "All Other" annual billable rate will be used to obtain reimbursement for services provided to organizations outside the Federal government. Office: (208) 387-5681 Mobile: (208) 866-1610 On May 9 the agency released a list of 14 helicopters for the >1,600 tier. Well said Maghreb.sadly, doing so would guarantee financial disaster/bankruptcy for the industry while also ensuring that the country and its citizens in fire prone states would be without helos for many more years than just one season.I do love the idea as it would send a message for suremaybe a few calls to the White House make sense here? 30 0 obj <>stream Aircraft carded by USFS/OAS? Rest assured the FS are aware of the concerns from industry, but everyone needs to realize that the FS is the customer. No wonder there is absolutely no concern about the financial impact of this proposal. 0000008566 00000 n We are all for the push for better equipment for our wildland fire efforts but the USFS cant do the change this suddenly and without any industry input. If helicopters are widely used in the USA to fight forest fires, they can also be used to burn them. Office: (208) 616-5548 Mobile: (208) 616- 5548, Training Centers Support (Main Contact) Fire managers recognized the value of helicopters to rapidly transport personnel and cargo to a fire, especially in remote locations. These may be local governments seeking to preserve a territory, but also counties or even states. xref Basic firefighter training and/or annual firelinesafety refresher prior to assignment, Arrives with: Crew first aid kit, personal first aid kit, headlamp, 1-qt canteen, web gear, sleeping bag. They are all tied to contractors in the business. So given that the PM and the HS are both aviation folks, this means that they have certain goals that they are trying to achieve given the shape that the Solicitation is taking. four user categories rates: Other DoD, Other Federal, Foreign Military Sales, and All Other. They are versatile fire management tools. Ordering instructions contained within each contract or agreement should be followed. Budget Coordinator The companies willing to make adjustments will do just that and end up with contracts. Rotating wing aircraft have a special place in the fire-fighting system. 0000003543 00000 n Office: (208) 387-5695 Mobile: (208) 860-7334 Airtankers AMS - Aviation Management System (AMD-23E), AMD-23E Instructions for USFS National Type 1 & 2 Call When Needed (CWN) Contract Helicopters hired for DOI Incidents, BLM Annual Helitack Data Master (January 2017), BLM Exclusive Use Fire Helicopter Crew Training and Experience Requirements, 14 CFR Federal Aviation Regulations (FAR), National Transportation Safety Board Information, Toggle Dyslexia-friendly black-on-creme color scheme, Aerial wildland fire training taking place this week at Channel Islands Air National Guard Station, Military aircraft equipped with MAFFS mobilized to assist with wildfire suppression efforts, First Annual National Wildland Firefighter Day Announced, BLM and Maverik Partner to Reduce Human-Caused Wildfires, Aerial wildland fire training taking place in Boise april 25-29, Andrus Center for Public Policy and Partners Seek National Student Congress Address Wildland Fire Management, National Interagency Incident Communications Division, National Incident Management Organization. All the experienced aviation folks leading the latest helo RFP need to know that what youre proposing will lead to less a/c and more accidents/deaths. They are capable of carrying four to five firefighters at a time, and use a 180 gallon water bucket. Potentially an EU ship could sit all season and never turn a rotor and they would only collect the daily rate. What replaces the 212? Aviation for Regions 1, 2, & 9, 10 Besides the cost for the new equipment will be passed on the FS through the increase in Daily Availability rates. What do you do with an expensive asset like a helo when youre only customer suggests to just not submit? Faintly, what are the advertisement you see posted on this site? Resource Library (Handbooks, Guides The agreements and contracts you are about to view have been established for government aviation users whose agencies have formal agreements with DOI, Interior Business Center, Acquisitions Services Directorate (AQD) and are authorized to order services from those agreements and contracts. Typos, let us know, and please keep in mind the commenting ground rules before you post a comment. Helicopter Rental Rates Helicopter Rental Rates 2023.docx/Jaz F (Prot) Page 1 February 2023 Operator Information Company Name: Address: Day Phone #: Taxpayer Identification #: . - R1 Overdue/Missing Aircraft Protocol, DOI For type 3 helos it may be possible, providing the USFS can double the budget because thats what vendors are going to bid for a new aircraft with higher maintenance cost and complexity, additionally operating hot and high im sure the load charts are going to have to be quite conservative to ensure OEI is landing safely and not just crashing slower, Everything has to be in balance, you cant spend unlimited money, and you cant eliminate all risk, the safest and most inexpensive helicopter is one that sits on the ground. Version 10 Page 1 of 13 October 15, 2019 . Application of gel, foam or retardant? Although I dont know if this counts as a legacy platform. Office: (208) 387-5252 Mobile: (208) 866-0417 I also think your comments are short sighted on Bills pandering to industry. Agency Abbreviation. Hawaii beats the national average by 4.2%, and Tennessee furthers that trend with another $4,165 (5.9%) above the $71,117. Branch: Air . Yes, the customer is the FS. NIFC Janitorial *Sensor payloads are variable but typically include daylight (electro-optical), infrared (IR), thermal, or mapping cameras. Pratt & Whitney Engine Maintenance. Here is what they wrote. They will tell you they have their smerfs.SMEs ( who typically are cradle to grave beuracrats as well), who are supposedly dialed in on the subject matter surerightlmao Maybe all of the experienced aviation folks you mention are part of this have never actually had to buy a multi-million a/c, maintain it, crew it and ensure that its operable? Unmanned Aerial Supervision(UAS) Program, Delphine Arizana, Contract Specialist T able 2- LAT and . AMS - Aviation Management System (AMD-23E) 2016 Fire Suppression Order Numbers. Although Type 3 helicopters are smaller, they have a higher cruise speed than a typical Type 2 helicopter and can arrive on the scene of an initial attack wildfire faster. (Y/N) This draft RFP is such a massive and violent change from what has been requested in previous contracts that most operators arent going to be able to handle it. NWCG typing standards enable accurate ordering and acquisition of needed resources in support of nationally interoperable wildland fire operations. The FS is a sinking ship by every measurable metric and the aircraft contracting department is clearly no exception. If the income is lower and lower due to LPTA and the job security is year to year with no guarantee, most lenders will tell you to try another bank to mortgage your house. Note, however, that the civil versions of the bi-rotor, Boeing Vertol 234, have been flying against fire, sometimes within the same companies, for many years, with close performances and operational costs equivalent to the AirCrane, ($ 24,000 / day + $ 7394 per flight hour for a CH-47D, $ 22,150 / day + $ 7,776 / per flight hour for a CH-54B, 2016 rate). Maybe in talking to a 3rd party lender the FS would learn more about these challenges that industry is facing due to the well intended, but poorly delivered solicitation requirements? You FS boys need to stop trying to blame the messenger and take the feedback from industry to heart. We operate Type III helicopters and are now faced with 40lbs+ of equipment (costing over $60k per aircraft) to meet minimum requirements - things that we really don't need like a Traffic Avoidance System (but the ADS-B they required last year isn't good enough) and a loudspeaker (because yelling at the fire helps? As a former helitacker I know we were always looking forward to moving to a more modern helicopter fleet. The so-called exclusive contracts make it possible to reserve the contracted aircraft for the USFS missions for the duration of the fire seasons. 0000009662 00000 n In the parlance of the agency, the bulk of the USFS firefighters are "1039s," referring to the number of work hours they are capped at in a given season. The States contracted for Fed approved airtankers so just like we all share resources like engines and shot crews now we can share airtankers too. Southern Area Master Interagency Agreement. Position Title. Type 3 Helicopters Although Type 3 helicopters are smaller, they have a higher cruise speed than a typical Type 2 helicopter and can arrive on the scene of an initial attack wildfire faster. Helicopters with buckets can pull water from water sources that are deep enough for the buckets. Bill would rather not take his private industry advertisers $$$, but he should and needs to get paid for the hard work he puts in and he knows you Government boys cant/wont pay him to tell the truth. Oh, and dont glance over the cockpit camera, which they want even on restricted category bucket ships. 0000010826 00000 n Does a 407 not meet the new requirements? Todd thanks for chiming in. Like I have mentioned before at the Fed level, too much too late. They are capable of carrying four to five firefighters at atime, anduse a 180 gallon water bucket. Other aircraft can be rigged with a Bambi Bucket but several operators have made the choice to heavily modify their helicopters with internal bunkers and complex release systems. I remember seeing N1168U on the LP & Southern Sierras in the 80s! They requested to remain anonymous in order to avoid retribution from the agency. National Type 1 and 2 CWN Contract: while simultaneously saying that they fully intend on moving to modern helicopters that are built after the year 2000 and are all twin engine. I am concerned that it will reduce resources in a way that will harm the communitys we generally get to help. 0000001234 00000 n People will write their Congressional Reps and lowly GS grade bureaucrats will get mushroom stamped for creating an untenable contracting environment that leads to a massive shortage of rotors when homes are burning. Guide for Aerial Retardant Application One has to write to the audience who butters their bread!. If a vendor doesnt like the requirements, they can choose not to submit a proposal. In other locations they would just shrug their shoulders and walk away. Nor is it actually clear to me that is what is happening. Call-When-Needed (CWN) Airtankers 2.1 Firewatch Cobra (Bell 209-AH-1) Aerial Supervision Helicopter A 407 isnt a twin, even tho a 407hp will outperform all the above as a type III. And now this year before we head into fall contracting with the MATOC still looming they have changed how they pay us. These standards assign typing designations based on measurable capability and performance criteria. The banker looks at your household income and job stability. They never seem to be logical ! Aviation Safety Management System, IAT At least two CL-415s were removed from USFS contracts and placed on a state contract this year too. DAY OFF DAILY AV RATE HRLY FT RATE (DRY) 150Hrs/Over 150 Hrs DAILY OPTIONAL POST AV RATE CONTRACTING OFFICER 1. It is known that the retardant is a product much more effective than water which reinforces the tactical importance of rotating wings. Official websites use .gov Call-When-Needed (CWN) Amphibious Water Scooper Aircraft

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